From dn36@columbia.edu Sat Apr 12 01:10:16 1997

Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 03:00:54 -0700

From: David Novick <dn36@columbia.edu>

To: Boris.Feldblyum@f302.n109.z1.jewishgen.org, nateg@usa.net

Cc: dn36@columbia.edu, drnovell@emi.net, nogrodes@fdusvr1.fdu.edu

Subject: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki

 

I have a question regarding Boris Feldblyum's and Nate Gross's

responses to Marc Novell (at drnovell@emi.net) about the name

Novogrodsky. This is my original family name. I also believe it was

from Novogrudok. My name was pronounced Novogrudsky and my father lived

not far from this town. I have detailed Novogrodsky Web pages. I got

carred away with these pages. My main page is located at

"http://128.59.202.178/www/novogrud.htm". My question is that people

with this name pronounce it Novogrudsky or Novogrodsky. I know with

Russian to Polish to English the third o in the name might get chaned

and confused as in Polish an O with an accent is pronounce as a u in

English. When this Polish spelling is seen in English is can be

pronounced as a O. The problem is that 3 out of 5 people who responded

to my Novogrudsky home pages insist that their name was always

pronounced Novogrodsky. The other two say it was pronounced Novogrudsky

like mine. One Nowogrodzki from Poland himself told me that all these

versions are the same name pronounced correct as Novogrudsky. I am

confused. I see that their were a few other towns named Nowogrod,

Novgorod, Novogrudok, Novogorod, etc. These towns are located in

Poland, Russia, Belarus, and the Ukraine. At first I though that all

Novogrodskys had to originate from Poland and Belarus. My guess was

that if a person's name was from Russia or the Ukraine their names would

be pronounced Novogorodsky. I knew a few people from Russia and the

Ukraine with Gorod in their last names. None of these people had grud

or grod in their names. Please explain to me if I am correct and if

there is a way to differentiate between all the Novogrodsky names. I

will include the original 3 emails at the bottom of this letter to

refresh everyones memories. Also feel free to look at my Novogrudsky

home pages. I update them often.

 

Thanks for your replys,

 

Sincerly,

 

David Novick

dn36@columbia.edu

Work Phone (212) 678-4109

Home Phone (718) 336-5866

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From nk.rank@usa.net Sat Apr 12 01:10:48 1997

Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 13:38:36 -0400

From: N <nk.rank@usa.net>

To: dn36@columbia.edu

Subject: Re: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki

 

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Hi David

 

I did not include your original message - it was a bit long. As to your

question: I speak both Russian and Polish. Both languages are Slavic and

some words are pronounced almost the same, with small differences. The

Russian Novgorod means, in old Slavic, a new town. In Polish Novogrudek

means also a new town. There are a number of towns in Poland, Belorus,

Ukraine and Russia with these names (the Belorussian and Ukrainian

pronunciations are similar to the Russian). The largest cities named

Novgorod are in Russia - THE largest - Nizhni Novgorod (used to be

Gorki) is about 300 miles east of Moscow. So your family may be from any

one of these places - many of those towns were in the pale of settlement

- which encompassed parts of Poland, Belorus and the Ukraine. Nixhni

Novgorod is NOT in the boundries of the pale, so if your family origins

are in Russia, you are likely to find your roots there.

 

Regards

N.

 

 

 

From dn36@columbia.edu Sat Apr 12 01:14:35 1997

Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 00:35:06 -0400 (EDT)

From: David Novick <dn36@columbia.edu>

To: N <nk.rank@usa.net>

Subject: Re: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki

 

Nate, Hi and thanks for your prompt response. I know my father was living

very close to Novogrudek in Poland which is now Belorus. My question is

about all the other novogrodskys I am coming across. If a person's name

has grod or grud, does this mean his family origates from Poland and

Belorus? If a person's name has gorod, does this mean his family

originates from the Ukraine and Russia? Also, is the town Nowogrod

which is north of Warsaw, Poland prounced Novogrod or Novogrud? I am

trying to tie different Novogrodskys to areas based the spelling and

prouncation. Please let me know.

 

Thanks again,

 

David Novick

On Sun, 6 Apr 1997, N wrote:

 

> Hi David

>

> I did not include your original message - it was a bit long. As to your

> question: I speak both Russian and Polish. Both languages are Slavic and

> some words are pronounced almost the same, with small differences. The

> Russian Novgorod means, in old Slavic, a new town. In Polish Novogrudek

> means also a new town. There are a number of towns in Poland, Belorus,

> Ukraine and Russia with these names (the Belorussian and Ukrainian

> pronunciations are similar to the Russian). The largest cities named

> Novgorod are in Russia - THE largest - Nizhni Novgorod (used to be

> Gorki) is about 300 miles east of Moscow. So your family may be from any

> one of these places - many of those towns were in the pale of settlement

> - which encompassed parts of Poland, Belorus and the Ukraine. Nixhni

> Novgorod is NOT in the boundries of the pale, so if your family origins

> are in Russia, you are likely to find your roots there.

>

> Regards

> N.

>

>

>

 

 

From nk.rank@usa.net Sat Apr 12 01:11:17 1997

Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 14:50:53 -0400

From: N <nk.rank@usa.net>

To: David Novick <dn36@columbia.edu>

Subject: Re: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki

 

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I think that you will not be able to establish a connection between the

name and the family's origins. People have moved and the names were

adapted to the environment. I know a Novgorodsky who used to be

Novogrudsky - the were deported from Poland to Russia before WW2 and the

name was changed. Also places changed hands and names of towns changed.

I wish you good luck, but am not otimistic.

 

N.

 

 

 

From bfeldbly@CapAccess.org Sat Apr 12 01:11:53 1997

Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:54:25 -0400 (EDT)

From: Boris Feldblyum <bfeldbly@CapAccess.org>

To: David Novick <dn36@columbia.edu>

Cc: Boris Feldblyum <bfeldbly@CapAccess.org>

Subject: Re: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki

 

 

Dear David,

I do not think I can help you to differentiate between all versions of

the name. All of them are legitimate and there have not been one rule

how to translate/transliterate names feom one language to another.

Sincerely,

Boris Feldblyum

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

3 Original Emails Below as Follows:

 

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:40:26 GMT

Reply-To: Marc <drnovell@emi.net>

Sender: Jewish Genealogy Discussion Group

<JEWISHGEN@MAIL.EWORLD.COM>

From: Marc <drnovell@emi.net>

Organization: The EmiNet Domain (407)731-0222

Subject: Vilna

Comments: To: Multiple recipients of JewishGen <sgjewish@trace.cgsg.com>

 

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I know this is probably a very basic question, but my father died

quite a while ago, and there is no one left in the family to ask...

Starting to do research on my famil.. I know that my dad came from a

shtetl called Vilna Gabernia (sp?) Was that Russia, Poland, Lithuania?

The family name (before it was changed in the twenties) was

Novogrodsky or Novogodsky. Possibly from the city of Novogrod in

Russia?

 

Thanks for any help in finding my "roots."

 

Marc Novell

 

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REMINDER: JewishGen Family Finder -- <http://www1.jewishgen.org/jgff>

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Email address: drnovell@emi.net

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=========================================================================

 

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:37:27 GMT

Reply-To: Nate Gross <nateg@usa.net>

Sender: Jewish Genealogy Discussion Group

<JEWISHGEN@MAIL.EWORLD.COM>

From: Nate Gross <nateg@usa.net>

Subject: Re: Vilna

Comments: To: Multiple recipients of JewishGen <sgjewish@trace.cgsg.com>

 

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

The Vilna Gubernia used to be the vicinity of the city of Vilna in

Lithuania, which itself was a part of the Russian Empire until WWI.

The last name does point to Novgorod in Russia as the origins of one

of your ancestors.

 

Marc <drnovell@emi.net> wrote:

 

>I know this is probably a very basic question, but my father died

>quite a while ago, and there is no one left in the family to ask...

>Starting to do research on my famil.. I know that my dad came from a

>shtetl called Vilna Gabernia (sp?) Was that Russia, Poland, Lithuania?

>The family name (before it was changed in the twenties) was

>Novogrodsky or Novogodsky. Possibly from the city of Novogrod in

>Russia?

-=-

REMINDER: JewishGen Family Finder -- <http://www1.jewishgen.org/jgff>

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Email address: nateg@usa.net

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=========================================================================

 

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:36:23 -0500

Reply-To: Boris Feldblyum

<Boris.Feldblyum@f302.n109.z1.jewishgen.org>

Sender: Jewish Genealogy Discussion Group

<JEWISHGEN@MAIL.EWORLD.COM>

From: Boris Feldblyum

<Boris.Feldblyum@f302.n109.z1.jewishgen.org>

Subject: Vilna

Comments: To: Multiple recipients of JewishGen <sgjewish@trace.cgsg.com>

 

>>I know this is probably a very basic question, but my father

died quite a while ago, and there is no one left in the family to

ask... Starting to do research on my famil.. I know that my dad

came from a shtetl called Vilna Gabernia (sp?) Was that Russia,

Poland, Lithuania? The family name (before it was changed in the

twenties) was Novogrodsky or Novogodsky. Possibly from the city

of Novogrod in Russia?

Thanks for any help in finding my "roots."

Marc Novell

 

Marc,

You have come to the right place but unfortunately, there is no

very basic answer to your "very basic question". To begin with,

"shtetl called Vilna Gabernia" was a size of Maine if not New Jersey.

Guberniya means Province in Russian and your father could have lived

in one of the 500 (or 1500?) big and small towns there. During the

times of your interest it was a part of the Russian Empire.

 

Novogrosky is a very good lead because the name is indeed from that

area. The town is Novogrudok (Polish - Nowogrodek) it your family

may have originated there, but you are TOO far from that stage in

the research.

 

As Lauren Davis wrote just yesterday,

 

>>The best place to start is with Warren Blatt's FAQ (Frequently

Asked Questions)

Send e-mail with no subject or text to:

<faq@jewishgen.org>

or view it directly on the Web at:

<http://www.jewishgen.org/faqinfo.html>.

 

With regards to your future research of the Vilna Province Jewish

records, you can start counting your blessings now. The amount of

Jewish records and their variety is staggering and one of the largest

when compared with almost any other region of the Tsarist Russia.

 

Boris Feldblyum *

FAST Genealogy Service *

bfeldbly@CapAccess.org *

http://www.avotaynu.com/fast.html

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